AD PRO Color Trends

Hi everyone.

My name is Lila Allen and I'm the senior editor of AD Pro.

I'm really excited to be here with you today

for this AD Pro Member workshop in which we'll be discussing

one of our reader's absolute favorite topics,

which is of course color.

Each fall, the design world excitedly anticipates

the rollout of upcoming color of the year,

a franchise initiated by PANTONE more than 20 years ago,

and now it's seen across industries ranging from beauty,

to interior design, to products.

And I wouldn't be surprised

if there's a color-of-the-year toothpaste at this point.

While it's fun getting to read the tea leaves

for the upcoming year.

For you, the designers that are actually in the weeds,

working with clients every day on projects

that may not be ready for months or years,

knowing what's ahead is really critical.

And also what's timeless,

what's going to look tired by the time you're done.

So with that in mind,

we put together a trend report that was just published

earlier today on the colors and everything you need to know

about what is happening right now

from how AI is affecting how designers are specking colors

to the palettes that are trending now.

To get to the bottom of these questions,

of course, we turn to designers like you

and designers in the AD100,

designers at the top of their game

to get their best practices, their ideas, their inspiration,

their tips and tricks, their favorite shades of white.

And we have three of those experts with us here today

whose reputation with color precedes them.

Just to note, I'm asking my colleagues

to drop their and my handles into the chat.

So if you'd like to give them a follow, please do.

Without any further ado, we have first Ashley Hicks,

an Oxfordshire and Milan-based interdisciplinary designer

who's work encompasses architecture, interiors,

furniture, textiles, and books.

Earlier this year, he released the book,

David Hicks In Color with Cabana,

a Volume on the processes and influences

that shaped his father, David Hicks' career.

And it also inspired a story on AD Pro about canopy beds,

one of our favorites.

We also have Courtney McLeod, the founder and principal

of Right Meets Lift Interior Design in New York City.

She also stars in AD's Space Saver Series.

If you haven't checked that out yet,

please head over to our YouTube channel and give it a watch.

It's a lot of fun.

Her very own Colorful Home has been featured in Clever

and Courtney, I believe you're redoing it as we speak,

although today she's calling in from Paris

where she's on a very glamorous trip.

So thanks for joining us, Courtney.

Thank you.

Finally, we have Frances Merrill,

founder and principal of Reath Design,

an AD100 listed interiors firm based in Los Angeles.

Although in the spirit of these things,

she is not calling in from Los Angeles.

She is calling in from Portland today.

In the past year, AD featured a story

on a chromatic hideaway she developed

on the coast of Massachusetts.

If you're looking for any inspiration on colorful counters,

millworks, stoves, it really packs a punch.

I have to confess, I'm fan-girling a little bit today.

I said on the call right before this,

this is my dream lineup for a color panel.

So really excited to be here with you all today.

So thank you for joining us.

Before we continue, just a few housekeeping notes,

we will have a Q and A portion at the end of the talk

for the last 10 or 15 minutes or so.

While the chat is disabled, 'cause this is a Zoom webinar,

you can put something in the Q and A box

and we will see that and be able to address it.

And some of you also submitted questions in advance.

Thanks to those of you who did.

Second, we are recording this session,

so if you need to hop off, take a call, whatever.

you can find whatever you missed tomorrow

in the AD Pro Color Trends report,

this will be embedded as a video there.

So just keep an eye out for that.

And finally, at the end of the presentation,

before you totally x out of the window,

there will be a little survey that pops up

so you can give us a little feedback on today.

So thanks for listening in.

And without any further ado, Courtney,

I'd love to start with you.

You actually appeared in our trend report

and you spoke about the importance of color hierarchy

in an interior.

When you start a project, what do you start

when you're imagining a space?

What do you consider the primary thing,

secondary, the accents?

What do you consider the hierarchy?

Sure, well, Lila, thank you so much for including me.

It's a real delight to be on the panel.

For me, of course, it starts with the client.

My practice, we're known for having fun with color,

using bold color,

but that means something different for everyone.

And so it's really understanding who our client is

and really following the lead from there.

For me, I start with my favorite things,

which is wallpaper and paint.

So it's the walls, the ceiling.

That's where I like to start to create a beautiful envelope.

And then, usually, we do get to use some fun wallpapers.

And I find that's a great way

to develop a palette for a space.

And if we are doing a wallpaper,

my favorite trick is just

to pick the smallest color in there

and then put that on a large piece in the space.

It has a way of, with your eye,

just making everything feel really cohesive.

So that's usually my little trick for that.

And it looks like you did that here with that blue sofa.

We did, we did.

Very nice.

And was this your apartment, Courtney,

that we're looking at?

No, this is a loft in downtown New York

that we did for a young family,

and it's a typical New York City loft.

It's 3000 square feet with light on either end.

And the beauty of a space like that

is the main living space open plan.

And so we had a 40-foot wall to play with,

and so we brought in this incredible Voutsa wallpaper

that the clients and I fell in love with,

and it's got just about every color under the sun in there.

And so we were really able to pull everything out

and have a lot of fun here.

You're seeing blues, and pinks, and yellows, and purples,

and greens, and just about everything.

But again, that wallpaper helps to tie everything together

so that it doesn't feel so chaotic

and it's easy to live with.

Totally.

Love it.

Thanks for sharing that.

Well, Ashley, I'd love to hear your take on this question.

Where do you start a color concept?

I know in your, in Martina's Milan flat,

you use two 15th-century textiles as muses.

Is starting with an object a common strategy for you?

Or where else do you look for ideas?

Yes, yes.

Sometimes it starts from an object.

I think sometimes it just,

like why not have the entrance hall

in a rather wonderful red to just bring us in in a warm way.

Anyway, this here is the entrance hall

of that same apartment in Milan,

which I share with my partner Martina Mondadori.

And here, there's an amusing thing,

talking about working from original objects.

There's, I don't know if you can see on the easel

in the window, there's a renaissance marble panel

that must have come from a church probably originally.

And inset into it is a bit of green porphyry,

so it's ancient Roman green porphyry column cut into a slice

and shoved in the middle of that in 1500 or something.

And so I then painted the entrance door,

which was just a plain white painted door, very ugly,

with a disc of faux porphyry to match that.

Yeah, so it doesn't tell us much about color, does it?

But I mean, there's an ancient color

brought into a modern room.

No, and I love that the faux material is there as well.

Oh, well, yeah.

No, and then this is my living room in Oxfordshire,

right here where I am now.

And so that has walls painted to look like squares

of green leather stitched together.

And you can't see the stitching,

but I promise you it's there.

But, the whole scheme is slightly derived

from visiting Jaipur in India quite a lot.

And so it started off

having more pink sandstone color,

which has over the 30 years, the room's life,

it's turned into a deeper maroon.

Just because the pink sandstone has gone,

but the green has remained.

But yeah.

Fantastic.

Did you say it was actually painted

or that this was leather applied to the wall?

No, the walls are painted.

Yeah.

Okay.

There's no real anything in my world.

Everything's fake.

That's fantastic.

I'm a big purple fan,

so happy to see a large purple rug there as well.

I've got one, one's next to me right now.

Ah, yeah.

Oh, and this is, oh, look at that,

that's the room I'm sitting in, which is my library.

And there, there's this table that I made,

I carved out of resin to look like a fragment

of a giant ancient head made of Lapis lazuli or something.

And so that blue, the whole room you can see

it really comes together from the fabric on the walls,

which was a David Hicks,

one of my David Hicks fabrics for Lee Jofa.

But something like 25 years ago, this stripe,

it's now out of, no longer in production.

But everything in the room has this blue,

from the fabric, that has come together

with these bookcases that I painted.

And then the table and accessories,

there's all sorts of blue bits.

That's fantastic.

Well, on that first room where we saw the porphyry,

where did you find the panel?

Oh, the panel Martina's father bought many years ago.

Oh.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

Well, Frances, I'd love to turn to you for a moment.

Presumably, the clients that are seeking you out

are not afraid of a little color.

So what requests are they bringing to you these days?

What are they asking for?

I think earlier in my career,

there was a lot of, felt like me pushing people

to be more bold with color.

And it's funny, I think it's actually switched a little bit

that we now have people who are really coming to us

and I'm like, really?

Okay, we can do that.

And trying to figure out how to do it in a way

that will feel still gracious to live in and lovely

and not like you're being yelled at by the space you're in.

So I think a lot of what we're doing

is people are coming to us

with really wonderful color ideas,

and I'm so happy to be pushed outside

of my comfort zone in that way.

But I think what we're really advocating for is,

well, maybe we tone it down a little,

or maybe that color that you think you love once it's large

and somewhere should actually be a little moodier

or maybe a little darker or a little drabber, really.

And people often are like, no, no, I want bright and I want,

and then we test, and we test, and we test,

and it ends up usually maybe being knocked down a couple,

which still reads as a very,

no one would accuse it of not being colorful.

But I think it's about finding the tone that works.

Have you ever had to redo something once it went up,

when it was just large scale?

No, really, because I think I'm a broken record.

I often have people write me like, oh, what's that color?

I'm like, I'm not going to tell you

because you need to test it.

And I have especially friends of mine who are like,

just tell me what it was and I'll do it.

And I'm like, no, you need to look at it in the morning,

in the evening.

Right, of course.

And I think we're gonna get a little bit to that

later in the questions today too.

Well, Ashley, it's appropriate for me to ask this question

in this room that looks absolutely pitch dark right now,

but what color strategies do you use in spaces

that receive poor natural light and also small spaces?

Do you have any tricks that you pull out in these cases?

I'm not sure that I really have tricks,

but my father actually had a thing that,

if a room doesn't have much daylight,

the worst thing you can do is paint it a light color.

You should always paint it a strong color or a dark color,

and it will feel brighter as a result.

And that does, I think, hold true,

these pictures are my bedroom,

which I painted after my first wife decided

she'd prefer not to sleep in it with me.

I painted it this dark moody red

with Aztec masonry I called it,

but random blocks of just color.

And it gives a wonderful warming cozy feel to the room.

And then I have all these gold objects

that glow against the red.

And it's really rather wonderful.

My daughters who were teenagers at the time

said that it was regal and it looked like

I was living in a museum,

and both of which sounded perfect to me, but there we are.

I think there's another room as well, isn't there?

Oh.

This is another tiny space,

which was in Milan, Salone del Mobile last year.

It was a little, we were meant to do a dining room

in this sort of, they weren't meant to be tents.

I tented the interior.

They were mirrored cubes on the roof of a building in Milan.

And they were so small you could only fit three people

at the dining table, which seemed an unsociable number.

So I did a wall of mirror to make look like

a table for six instead.

But I tented it in, again, dark red,

one of my printed linens.

And it's a tiny space and had no daylight at all

once I'd closed it off with the tenting.

But it did feel rather nice and cozy and unsurprising

on a hot Milan day.

It really is.

I don't know if that's any help really.

I don't think I have any practical advice for anyone,

I'm afraid.

Well, not everything has to be practical either.

sometimes I think it's worth just really going for it.

I remember everybody discussing this in Milan.

It was really a place to see.

Well, Frances, back to you, relating to something

we just discussed a moment ago,

and also we were just talking about with Ashley,

how do you adjust color, if at all, relative to geography?

For example, right now you're in Portland.

I know it can be gray,

I don't know if you're thinking about color

in a different way there than you would

in southern California, but yeah, how do you think about it?

I mean, yes, definitely,

but I think we probably think about it differently

in different parts of Los Angeles also.

I think it really does come down to each area

is a pretty unique place and why I really need to test it.

I think during the pandemic we learned

how much could be done over Zoom,

but I will still get on an airplane to see paint colors,

even if everything else can be done differently, I think.

Right.

I'm gonna be a broken record,

but you need to test it and look at it.

And I think what Ashley said,

and maybe I learned it from one of his father's books,

but I think low light is definitely a place

for darker color.

I think those are some of the things

that definitely make sense.

And if you have light coming from some direction

and you wanna have a beautiful shear, I dunno,

they're all.

Right.

I mean, I've also, just in my own writing

and talking to designers, heard of plenty of clients

who maybe live somewhere very dreary

and they just can't stand being around anymore darkness

or drabness outside.

And so they want a house that's quite bright

and cheery inside too.

So I think that can also be a more emotional way

of thinking about it.

And Frances also, do you ever think about how the exterior

is coming in as you're conceiving an interior?

For example, if a room has an amazing view onto a garden,

it's blooming and full of flowers.

Like do you consider that at all in the color scheme

you're coming up with?

Not even just for paint, but for upholstery

or little accents in the room?

Yeah, I mean, I think hopefully you're thinking

about everything, everything all the time.

But I think if you have a beautiful view

and you have light that comes in a certain time,

then you might orient the room differently.

You might choose your window treatments differently

or try and pick up some colors and upholstery

or something that way.

Right.

Well, Courtney, I'm gonna kick it over to you

for the next one.

Are there any, and actually, I have to confess, Ashley,

I think I got this question.

It was inspired by something in the book that you put out

or maybe one of your father's books.

I think it may have been a piece of his advice,

but are there certain rooms and certain colors

that you would never put together

and how do you conceive of color

in relation to the function of a room?

Yeah, I don't have a lot of boundaries

when it comes to color, I'm pretty game to try new things.

I think the one though that I always tend to avoid

is mixing a brown with a really bright color.

When I think of brown, and I love brown,

it makes me feel very serene and lovely.

And so I like to keep the palette a little bit more muted

when paired with brown.

But that's probably the only one that I stick to

in terms of avoiding color combinations.

And, of course, function is always number one

and if a client wants to paint

their bedroom eye-piercing lime green.

I have a conversation with them about that

and if they want it, we'll do it.

But, of course.

Yeah, that image is a fun one.

It was a small hallway between two kids' bedrooms.

So that's a great spot to just really have some fun

and do something quite bold.

But yeah, generally, kitchens I like to be really bright

and fun, main spaces.

I think people are a little bit afraid

to really commit to color

and I tend to view certain bold colors,

they can become neutrals in a way.

And I often find that when the walls are a bright color,

it makes it a little bit easier

to work with other bright colors in the space

versus putting those with a white wall.

And that's usually something I have to convince clients of.

But by the end they're on my side.

And, of course, bedrooms, they should be flattering,

number one, and serene.

Right.

I loved on the banana hallway

how you had this translucent wall against the back

where you've applied the same color and same pattern,

but it actually just teases what's behind it a little bit,

rather than it being blocked in with the pattern.

Yeah.

That's a nice touch.

It was really fun.

And then we decided to keep going and bring in a paint color

to mimic the bananas instead of just stopping

with the wallpaper

and it's a really fun scratch-and-sniff paper.

What?

How long does that last?

Quite a while actually.

And it's funny.

Like Willy Wonka.

Yeah.

And they like to scratch a different banana each day.

Oh, my gosh.

It's really cute.

Oh my gosh, that's fun for a kids' room.

Well, Frances, we in the past at AD Pro have done a story

on custom color and the different extremes

people will go to, to arrive at the exact right shade.

Do you work much with custom color,

whether it's in paint or other parts of the room?

I don't.

Actually, just thinking about this question,

I was like, oh, I would love to be there mixing.

'Cause I am always like, wait, what is that color?

It doesn't exist, I want it.

At this point, we work so much with families

that I just think ahead to them needing

to touch up their paint in five years

and trying to get the exact mix back.

I think also for me personally,

the real alchemy and what I love is how colors combine.

And so I think that's

where you can really get something very custom.

I mean, whether it's in this project

where the whole room had been painted,

and we added wood paneling, and we sandblasted,

and then picked this purpley hue on the beams,

and getting to bring in the different tones.

So I think that's, you can do so much customization

through combinations of different materials

and I think that's my favorite thing to do.

I'm noticing a trend here between that

and your Zoom background.

I know, my hotel room.

Nice happenstance.

And I mean even I think this one, looking at it,

I think pink is a color that, I don't know,

misunderstood is probably a stupid way of saying it,

but that I think when you're pairing it,

like I love these colors with the rust

and the kind of mustardy in the painting

that you get this, I don't know, I was fascinated.

I don't know if anyone took

any of those color theory classes in school

where you take the paper and you make

two colors look the same, two different colors look the same

by putting them on different backgrounds

or you make the same color look different.

And I think, I dunno,

I could geek out on that stuff all day long.

So I think figuring out the combinations

that make things feel special or different is the fun part.

Right.

And I love that the pink here is almost just like a neutral.

Yeah.

It's very, very soft, I love that.

Pink seems to be popular among our readers

just based on the traffic I see on images

with a big pink room versus other ones.

Great.

Well, Courtney, I don't think you've shown one today

unless I'm mistaken, but I know you are a fan

of a painted ceiling.

And I'll just say I've also been noticing

a lot of painted ceilings among profiles

on our AD Pro directory,

which is a new tool we launched this year,

connects readers of AD with designers they can hire for you.

Designers on the call, if you haven't looked at it yet,

I recommend going and checking it out

and we would love to have you apply as well.

But here we're looking at

a really great painted ceiling here.

Are there any color rules that you apply

when doing them?

And I'm gonna guess that you may not have color rules

'cause it sounds like you're pretty open.

But if you have any thoughts on how you approach these,

I'd love to hear 'em.

Sure.

I mean, I think if you are gonna go for color

on the ceiling, you should be strategic about it

and understand how it's gonna impact the space.

And I think color and pattern on the ceiling,

it's a great way to play with proportion.

I remember this particular project,

this is a room, it was interior, zero natural light,

really tiny, with really tall ceilings.

And I said, this is my favorite spot in the whole apartment.

And we basically used color to play with proportion

and you we added a picture rail, and brought the color down,

and we put that really bold coral on the ceiling

to bring life into the space.

And then we grounded it with a darker wall.

Like everyone's been saying,

I do love richer, deeper colors in dark spaces.

So that's one.

And so I also find I think pattern on a ceiling

can bring a ceiling down a little bit as well

and makes me feel a little bit more cozy.

But yeah.

And then, if you're, afraid to use that trick

of just the slightest blush of a color.

I really love a really slight blush of either a pink

or a yellow or a light blue.

And it can be really just a hint

depending on what else is going in the space,

it can really add a finishing touch to the space.

Because I find, sometimes with bold color,

if you've just got the white ceiling,

it feels a little like you didn't finish it.

And I know you said you're a fan of wallpaper.

Do you ever use wallpaper on the ceiling too?

Yes, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Great.

Well, Ashley, one reason that I wanted to have you

on the panel is because as we've seen,

you're a polymath and you bring a perspective

on decorative painting into this.

You've seen some beautiful work of yours already today.

Could you walk us through a project or two of yours

and what type of paint did you use?

What does the process of this look like?

Just walk us through it.

Gosh, well, it's a big one.

Yeah, well, I dunno what to say really.

So this is Martina's apartment in Milan again

and so the walls in here are stencil

with an old Persian design of south leaves,

which looks to me like dancing ladies,

which I thought was rather good for Martina,

who quite likes to dance.

But I stenciled them.

And then, I mean, I drew the pad and adapted

from an old picture I had, and then stencil it,

and then sponged over it.

And then actually did, you can't see in the picture,

but it's got highlights and shadows,

which I painted by hand, which took me weeks,

which was a nice excuse to stay there with her.

And so, there are highlights and shadows

in the correct direction for the daylight

coming from the window.

So you can't see in this rather low res picture,

but it actually gives a rather wonderful effect.

It looks like embossed leather or something like that,

or carved plaster.

And then over the door, there's what used to be

an absolute standard thing in 18th-century decoration

of painting over doors.

And so here I've copied a relief plaque

on the outside of the Villa Viale in Milan,

which Martina complains

that it looks like a recruiting poster for the 10th Legion.

Join up and kill some ghouls or something,

which she finds overly-militaristic,

but I think it's just quite decorative.

And then through in the other room,

and I think if you click we'll go in there,

there's Piranesi's drawings of Paestum,

and these are done with the technique I invented

of a pasting what you, I think, call burlap.

So jute sacking, with a very open weave.

So like a mesh, like a net and pasting that onto the wall

and then painting on it just, just in white and burnt amber.

So chiaroscuro, so most of what you see

is just the jute.

Oh, that's fantastic.

When did you develop that process?

Have you been doing that?

About eight years ago, something like that,

I was doing my own rooms in London

and I wanted to make them look

as if they had tapestry on the wall.

And so I was going to imitate old tapestries.

And then I thought actually I'd do it

in a monochrome and sepia.

And so I ended up doing a view of Constantinople

that a Frenchman had painted as a panorama in 1818.

So I do different things.

And then there's maybe if we click, we go onto another,

what's the other?

Well, this is that first first apartment in London

that I painted eight years ago.

And so there I've done some,

yeah, there, I've done some architectural,

rusticated blockwork, and the niche is filled with mirror

as you can see, so it's not actually an enormous enfilade,

it's actually just two rooms.

And then over the door that we're looking through,

I painted the frieze of the Parthenon.

And again, it's all got the shadows, you see,

for the daylight, which is coming in from the left,

which was a very important thing.

And in the Renaissance, Isabella d'Este,

when she had Mantegna, and Piero di Cosimo,

and people paint pictures

for her studiolo, she specified,

you need the daylight coming from the left

or from the right.

And then if we go on,

there's one more recent thing I did in a dining room

in Milan where it was for a client and the client said,

oh, I want Bemelmans Bar from the Carlyle.

So I said, well, why don't you hire an art student

and they can do it for you,

and yeah, we want you to do it.

So I said, well, I won't do Bemelmans Bar

but I'm happy to do New York in a different way.

So I did 1937 photographs, wonderful photographs of,

and I think this one must have been done

to make the Chrysler building look taller

than the Empire State you see on the right there.

I do, I do.

Or the only angle in the city where that would happen,

but it gives a rather good effect.

And this is again, on that jute sacking,

you can see the joins of the strips of it,

I find that quite fun.

It gives a rather rather antique look to it in a way.

It's fantastic.

Ashley, we've actually coined a term for this,

the Bemelmans effect.

We ran a story on this last year of just so many people

asking for Bemelmans Bar or something like Bemelmans Bar.

I can't think of anything that would get tired

and boring more quickly than having your attempt

at Bemelmans Bar in your own house.

Too much birthday cake, Phoebe.

But I love looking at these, these last few just because,

I mean, we are here in a color trends workshop,

but what you're showing us is really ancient stuff.

I think that you said there is a Parthenon Frieze up there

and I just, sometimes it's worth just looking to the past

and picking things that you just love and are timeless.

Doesn't have to be about chasing the next color of the year

or anything like that.

Oh dear, I'm afraid I think my connection is unstable.

Okay.

So I'm not sure how much you're getting of me,

but anyway, yes, I love looking to the past.

I'm afraid I'm so old that really the past is all I've got.

But anyway, just go onto somebody younger.

Well, on our end you're coming through just fine,

but if you drop off anything,

of course, we'll say something.

But so far so good.

Good.

Frances, you're an ardent colorist, but of course,

white continues to be an important color as well.

What role does white play in your work?

Well, I think for me, I mean white is beautiful.

It's white.

I think it is a good way to use some of the clearer colors.

I think it may be the next image or one of them

in a project we had recently

where the client loved these blues and, yeah,

clear is the best word I can say,

which I think they lend themselves to having space

around them.

It gives room.

I've noticed throughout

that sometimes you'll go for all over color,

sometimes you are painting the millwork.

So if you're not hard on either side of that role,

I know some people always want the millwork

to be white, for example.

Yeah, no, I don't have any rules about it.

No rules.

What seems to be right for this space.

Again, yeah, I think white lets you have, I don't know,

maybe colors that would overwhelm or some pale

or pretty colors.

I don't know.

There's a freshness, I guess.

Right.

I know you mentioned when someone brings in a color

and maybe you'll tone it down.

Does white ever help in that process or not really?

No.

I mean, I think with white it's the opposite where,

well, I guess maybe it's the same, you're toning it down,

but you often want a color that maybe doesn't read as white

if you're holding it up against a white sheet of paper.

But then when you've got it in context, it works as a white.

Right.

More of that color theory coming in.

Yeah.

I'm just going to make a quick housekeeping note,

again, if you joined us late, you do have the option

of putting questions into the Q and A box at the bottom.

Chat is disabled, but you can send in those questions

and we can see them.

So in about 10 minutes or so,

we're going to have some questions.

So feel free to put those in.

But for now, we'll go back to questions.

Just wanted to note that to the group.

Courtney, once again,

I think based on the conversation so far,

other than it sounds like brown and bright colors,

you're pretty game for things.

But are there any trends that you're avoiding

in terms of color and maybe it's not colors themselves,

but maybe it's, I don't know,

but certain things that you're seeing out there

that are being done and you're like,

that's maybe not for me.

Yeah, yeah, I mean I think color trends are really fun,

I don't necessarily go to them, necessarily,

to directly inform a current project.

But I will say there are some colors

that are more challenging to get right,

especially through the paint.

And I think red is a really hard one to get right.

And I think fuchsia is quite hard.

We've seen those colors be at the forefront

of trends over the last few years.

And for me, reds I tend to love something

with a little bit more of an orange under it,

something like biting into a juicy piece of fruit,

like that kind of a red.

Magenta's a hard one that one it can really overwhelm you.

I tend to not use that all over in a space and avoid.

I've been seeing that color a lot.

So I just say, be careful with that one.

I'm just gonna say, sorry,

I think we may have had the slides drop off.

I don't know if that's just on my side,

but just flagging that to the production team,

if we can get the slides back up,

that would be great because we can see more of their work.

[Production Team Member] Yeah, no slides for that one.

Okay.

Alright.

Thanks so much.

So magenta is the tricky one, it sounds like.

I find.

You find, that in small doses maybe?

Definitely.

I like to use it more, I think reds and magenta's,

I think they're much easier to use in upholstery,

accessories, than wall coverings.

So that's where I tend to stay safe.

Well, Ashley, it's come up a little bit already,

but I think I'd be remiss not to ask you about growing up

with one of design's great colorists, David Hicks.

As I mentioned earlier, you also just released

a wonderful book about his work earlier this year.

What lessons did you pick up from him

or from your childhood home?

And I'd also love to know

if there's anything you really disagree with

and branched out on from his advice.

Lessons.

God, I don't know, but he's got quite a lot to say

about color and so, by all means,

buy David Hicks in Color from www.cubanamagazine.com

and it'll tell you all his lessons

and he's got very strict rules.

You certainly don't paint any ceiling,

anything but white and all millwork as you call it,

must be white always.

But he was famous as being a bold colorist.

And what's quite interesting is that this picture here,

this is Helena Rubinstein's living room in London in 1962

or something, '61.

And this is his first bit of bold color

and he said clearly in several of his books,

he was very straightforward about it, it was her idea.

And it's not that he regretted it

and he wanted to blame it on the client,

but when he was hired by her, he was very young.

He was 30 or something,

and he had fairly muted color until then,

really in color combinations.

And then she was 83 years old

and was having his first proper site meeting with her,

not site meeting, but in a briefing meeting I suppose.

And she's lying on a shezlong in her hotel suite

and he's sitting there next to her

and he said to her, madame, have you thought of a color

for the walls of the reception room?

And she's got her eyes closed

and she's lying there so long silent

that he starts to think she's dead.

And he starts worrying, what do you do

with an 83 year old beauty billionaires?

She's died and you're sitting there

and then without opening her eyes,

she says, I see purple

and she's wearing a purple Balenciaga tweed skirt

and she calls her assistant to bring some scissors

and snips off a bit of the hem of the skirt

and hands it to him saying,

have tweed dyed exactly this shade of purple

and then clashing magenta and scarlet upholstery,

and so he did exactly that and it was a great triumph.

What's next?

We've got more.

Yeah, this is about the same time just after that I suppose.

This is my parents' bedroom in their London house.

And so this is showing what he-

Oh, I think the connection is unstable, Ashley,

I'll give you just a moment, see if it comes back.

And he'd just chuck it on everything, on the curtain,

a chair done up in a pink

and then this scarlet Vermilion carpet as well.

It's a wonderful effect and this print,

which just a bit of it would be rather pathetic,

but everywhere it's tumbling roses.

It's death by Heliogabalus or something.

But very true, my mom loved it.

Anyway, go on.

What's the next one?

We got another picture.

Yeah, and this is the Duke of Abercorn's library,

Baronscourt in Ireland.

And so here, they had old dining room curtains from I think,

sort of 1910 or something, which were this dark red velvet.

And they found those in the attic and, of course,

they'd gone outta fashion in the thirties

and they'd been taken down,

and they were practically brand new.

So he had those stretched onto the bit of wall

above the bookcase and behind the painting,

over the fireplace.

And then he made this fantastic bold geometric carpet,

this very strong red.

And he had the bookcases grained

as I have a feeling maybe the graining was old,

but he made the inside of them scarlet lacquer

to really set off the old bindings

and the whole effect, I mean,

I don't know what this is telling us about his use of color,

but the ceiling here you can see isn't white at all.

He has picked it out in all sorts of different shades

of beige and then done the scarlet

picking out of the plaster-work frieze.

So if you've got elaborate plaster-work,

then you're allowed, some color on the ceiling,

but not if it's plain.

I don't know, that hasn't really told us anything

about his use of color, has it?

But what he did tend to do was build up,

he'd go for saturation of, sometimes one color,

sometimes building up a whole lot of color.

But what he wouldn't have really is jarring contrasts.

But what he was very, very keen on

was having quite different color schemes in every room

of a house and said what he absolutely didn't allow

was the client who wants to have everything

basically a bit beige, a bit white,

and the occasional little dash of color,

that was absolutely no go.

You had to have a strong and contrasting color identity

for each room.

The reason being, of course,

I mean, it was partly so that

it would be fun to be in the house and go from one room

to the other, but mainly so that he could get

lots of pictures of the finished product

so that he had a good proper magazine story out of every job

and then fill up all of his endless books of his work.

So that was his reasoning behind it really.

Well, I love some of the language that,

I don't know if it was you or something that he said,

but there's a wall in your childhood home,

I think that was Coca-Cola Brown,

does that ring a bell?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

No, he said he knackered it Coca-Cola color.

It's so great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was really, I mean, of course, he liked to think

that he'd invented the wheel and everything else.

And so he was convinced by the time he died

that Billy Baldwin had never painted a room in dark brown,

and he hadn't gone himself in 1957

to Cole Porter's new apartment,

which Billy had just finished painting the library

in dark brown.

And, he conveniently forgot that.

And so he was happy to think

that he had invented the dark brown room.

Yeah.

But he did invent calling it Coca-Cola lacquer,

that's for sure.

And then there's a ridiculous story now

that he had a row with my mom

because he couldn't find anything good to drink

in the house.

And all there was, was Coca-Cola,

which is what she liked drinking.

And he threw a bottle of it at the wall

and saw the color dripping down the wall,

which of course couldn't possibly be true,

but if it was dripping down, it would look like cat piss.

It wouldn't look like dark brown Coca-Cola, would it?

But anyway.

Oh my God, there are many starting points

for color, I guess.

[Ashley] Is that right?

15 century textiles, Coco Cola on the wall.

Well, Frances, I'm gonna bring up something

that may be controversial for some people,

maybe not for others.

We've seen colorful plumbing fixtures

make a comeback in the last year.

Kohler has brought back some of their old shades,

these very pastel sinks and toilets.

I was gonna say, is that a yay or a nay for you?

But I think I know the answer.

How do you feel about them?

Yeah, I mean, I like any opportunity to be able

to have more options and I think so, sure, great.

I mean, it's not gonna work anywhere,

but I think it's nice to be able to have opportunities

to pick and choose.

I actually, when I was thinking about this,

this particular countertop has been discontinued

and this is my public plea

to all of the countertop manufacturers out there

to bring back some more colors.

I don't want, if I'm gonna use a manmade material,

I don't need it to look like some fake stone.

I can get a beautiful stone then,

but I wouldn't mind being able to have a paint deck

of countertop material options at my fingertips.

So that's my.

All right.

I think we do have some manufacturers on the call,

so hopefully they're listening.

There you go.

That's what I would like.

And this was a vintage sink, actually, which is nice.

Oh great.

I was gonna ask,

now that there are these options available new,

but is this something that you were also sourcing vintage

before that, but sounds like yes.

This blue is absolutely amazing.

Yeah, that one is, that was a vintage find.

Really nice.

And is there any other, it sounds like countertops are one,

but are there any other areas of the home that you feel like

are really ripe for an infusion of color, laundry rooms,

mudrooms, anything like that?

I think for the most part, we have a lot of tools

at our disposal to bring different things in,

and it's just about looking around

and thinking about what you like

and less concerned about maybe what is a trend

and just going on what feels good.

Right.

Courtney, last question here before we open it up

to the audience, but are there three colors

if you had to pick, that you use most in your work?

And if you have the brand in the shade,

I think the people on the call

would probably love to hear that.

I know we love to get specifics.

Sure, sure.

Well, I'm a glutton for punishment,

so I tend to like to reinvent the wheel for every project.

So I don't often repeat colors,

but there are a few I love.

this image actually has my personal favorite red,

which is Bullseye Red from Benjamin Moore.

It's that red with a bit of that orangey, juicy undertone

that I think is quite easy to work with.

Another one that I love is Summer Blue, actually,

that's this one from Benjamin Moore.

It's probably the happiest color I've encountered.

And it works.

We did this in a beach cottage, we've used that in the city

and it works at both and it just, when you're in it,

you just wanna smile and I really love that.

And another one that I love,

which my current apartment is actually painted,

is Hyper Blue by Sherwin Williams.

It's a really bold blue.

Yeah, that one.

Love this one.

But yeah, it surprisingly becomes a bit of a neutral

as a backdrop for other really bright colors.

And when you're in the space, it's surprisingly calm

and livable.

So I really love that color as well.

Great.

Well, we have some excellent questions here

from our listeners, so we're gonna switch over to those.

Thanks so much just in advance to all of you.

And again, there will be a survey before you close out,

so just make sure to take a look at that.

So we'll start off with a question from Lauren Mansfield,

Frances, your spaces are truly iconic and delightful.

How do you use color and pattern

without it looking hodgepodge and to boho,

also, what are your thoughts about flow or not flow

regarding colors throughout a house?

That ties in with what we were just talking about

with Ashley a moment ago.

Yeah, I mean, I stress out about it honestly.

[Lila] She's not immune.

Yeah.

And I think that's always why I tell people.

I mean, I think we had a photo earlier of a project of ours

that has a yellow kitchen and it actually is the same room

that has a pink living room

and it has this terracotta entry space.

And we had so many boards and we would put them in order

and say like, okay, this room can be next to this room,

but it doesn't really feel good next to this room.

And actually, they work well together

if this color is in the middle.

And so it's a lot of,

I mean, I think when it comes to color,

the best advice I really can give is

it's a lot of trial and error, and testing,

and testing, and then it's a leap of faith, right?

If you don't ultimately just try it,

it's why we end up with a lot of beige

or places that look the same.

So it's a combination of test, test,

and then jump off a cliff, I guess.

We have another question from Cheryl Nickel.

I have a remodel with textured walls, think popcorn ceiling

and low light, what's your advice to make it look modern

without sanding down the drywall, if anybody has any ideas?

No.

Have you ever made a popcorn ceiling work for you?

I'm sure lots of people that are buying these old houses

are dealing with this,

and I know we have articles on how to remove it, but.

Camouflage.

Camouflage.

Get fun with, with fabric

and do some draping on the ceiling.

I haven't discovered the way

to make popcorn ceilings actually look good.

Yeah, it's a tough one.

Ashley, I had a question for you.

I'm trying to find it here.

Luckily, I remember it.

So I'll just ask you, early on the slide you showed us

with the walls that have the leather effect,

how did you achieve that?

Well, just paint.

Actually, it is glazes of, there's a base green color

and then it's divided up into the squares

and there's a glaze on it, tinted glaze,

which honestly, if I was gonna do it today,

I probably wouldn't do that.

But it's a more traditional way to do it.

And it was painted with my ex-wife's ex-assistant

who was a decorative painter who worked for Mongiardino

and said it was an oil painting way to do it.

Yeah.

But then there was actual stitching?

Might do the same now but I'd probably do the same,

but just do it with acrylic instead.

Yeah.

And then the stitching was actually done with a stencil,

cut a stencil, but to look like big leather stitching,

on a hippie handbag from 1973 or something,

if you see what I mean?

Well, Courtney, maybe you're dealing with this now

with your own apartment, but what colors and soft goods

like bedding and pillows are you excited about right now?

Yeah, with bedding, I actually,

that's the one place

where I like to be a little bit more neutral,

I love a pretty simple bedding

with a wonderful little color piping.

And then I love to put a bold pillow.

I love to have a lot of fun with trims

and pattern on the pillow.

And then, bring in a little bit of color on a throw

at the end of the bed.

You think it's fun when you have a more neutral top coat

to have something unexpected underneath.

So I have done really fun like green, and blue,

and those kinds of colors for sheets.

And so when you under your bed

you have a little fun surprise.

And one thing we've not really talked about today,

wood stain is another question

that came in from the audience.

How are you all feeling about dark stains?

Light stains?

Do you have strong feelings about what you prefer

or is this whatever this individual space calls for?

It's no good just asking everybody,

you've gotta pick on someone, I think.

Alright, alright.

Because none of us know what to say.

But, I think, I dunno what I think really.

I mean, there are good colors and there are bad colors,

aren't there?

If you're talking about a floor,

you're talking about a floor.

Yes.

I mean, I think very often,

you can stain a floor practically black

and it looks fantastic

but proper staining is very important.

You know what's terrible is

when they put some sort of tinted color on top

and you can see the brushstrokes, it's just awful.

It has to go into the wood,

but obviously it's quite expensive.

You've gotta sand off the existing finish

and do it properly.

Right.

Yeah.

And then my father had a fantastic, had a recipe

from a painter called John Piper,

who once upon a time was a famous English painter.

And he had this recipe that I think John Piper told him

was an 18th-century recipe for whitening wood floors

in order to stop them turning yellow

and they used to do that quite a lot, oak floorboards,

they would put a whitewash, gray wash, I suppose, really?

And then wax them and that would stop them turning yellow.

Have you tried that recipe yourself, Ashley?

I wanna know if he still has the recipe.

I know, I do too.

I think he's frozen up again, unfortunately.

I think, well, one thing I'll say on this subject

is that I think people do really sort of,

when you're in the midst of a project

and you're caught up in it, I think people worry too much

about having too many different woods.

And as long as they're beautiful,

I think, they'll probably work out.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's a great note to end on.

Thanks everybody for joining.

Again, go over to AD Pro

and we have the Color Trends page up and live,

and it's just for members, so please do give that a look.

Thank you, all three of you, for being here.

This was really fascinating.

And Courtney, enjoy the rest of your time in Paris.

Thank you.

[Frances] Bye.

Thank you.

And Frances, enjoy Portland.

Thank you.